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	<title>Comments for The Sober Build Engineer</title>
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	<link>http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog</link>
	<description>Simply ship. Every time.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 08:18:44 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Version Numbers: Still Mattering by preed</title>
		<link>http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/2012/05/version-numbers-still-mattering/comment-page-1/#comment-830</link>
		<dc:creator>preed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 08:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/?p=1103#comment-830</guid>
		<description>@Four Paws:

Re: &quot;Progress&quot;: Your argument is predicated on the assumption that &quot;moving the web forward as quickly as possible&quot; is a shared value or optimization. I don&#039;t think this is a claim you can legitimately make.

Having said that, non-silent-but-automatic updates do require vendors to  behave a little different, especially in Mozilla&#039;s case (with the historical state of its addons ecosystem). It is my contention that they&#039;d rather not do that, and &lt;i&gt;that&#039;s&lt;/i&gt; what this is really about, not what&#039;s best for users of their product.

And therein lies the problem.

Re: marketing: actually, this proves my point, which was: Android has chosen (meaningless) release names to publicly market the product, which provides little information to the users about the context for the release. There are many who claim we&#039;re in a &quot;post-version number world!&quot; and my argument was that Apple&#039;s iOS marketing initiatives not only contradict this claim, but that versioning can still be used as a marketing tool, arguably in a more effective way than confusing code names.

Do you have any statistics to support the claim that &quot;most consumers... [haven&#039;t] bothered to [upgrade their] iPhone?&quot; There are reports that directly contradict that statement: http://www.redmondpie.com/ios-5.1-for-iphone-ipad-and-ipod-touch-sees-impressive-adoption-amongst-users/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Four Paws:</p>
<p>Re: &#8220;Progress&#8221;: Your argument is predicated on the assumption that &#8220;moving the web forward as quickly as possible&#8221; is a shared value or optimization. I don&#8217;t think this is a claim you can legitimately make.</p>
<p>Having said that, non-silent-but-automatic updates do require vendors to  behave a little different, especially in Mozilla&#8217;s case (with the historical state of its addons ecosystem). It is my contention that they&#8217;d rather not do that, and <i>that&#8217;s</i> what this is really about, not what&#8217;s best for users of their product.</p>
<p>And therein lies the problem.</p>
<p>Re: marketing: actually, this proves my point, which was: Android has chosen (meaningless) release names to publicly market the product, which provides little information to the users about the context for the release. There are many who claim we&#8217;re in a &#8220;post-version number world!&#8221; and my argument was that Apple&#8217;s iOS marketing initiatives not only contradict this claim, but that versioning can still be used as a marketing tool, arguably in a more effective way than confusing code names.</p>
<p>Do you have any statistics to support the claim that &#8220;most consumers&#8230; [haven't] bothered to [upgrade their] iPhone?&#8221; There are reports that directly contradict that statement: <a href="http://www.redmondpie.com/ios-5.1-for-iphone-ipad-and-ipod-touch-sees-impressive-adoption-amongst-users/" rel="nofollow">http://www.redmondpie.com/ios-5.1-for-iphone-ipad-and-ipod-touch-sees-impressive-adoption-amongst-users/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Version Numbers: Still Mattering by Four Paws</title>
		<link>http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/2012/05/version-numbers-still-mattering/comment-page-1/#comment-829</link>
		<dc:creator>Four Paws</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 01:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/?p=1103#comment-829</guid>
		<description>Progress: Most users don&#039;t upgrade their browsers at all. Silent updates move the web forward more quickly than it would otherwise. If IE had silent updates the world would be a better place. 

Marketing: Your argument is weakened by the fact that named OS releases (Ice Cream Sandwich, Froyo, Tiger, Lion, ...) are the entities to which marketing stories are attached, whereas incremental releases usually don&#039;t meaningfully impact the consumer anymore. Also, outside of the background app support/task switching/sync, the iPhone OS functionality hasn&#039;t significantly changed through all of their releases to date, so most iPhone users don&#039;t know their version either. My brother is not unlike most consumers and he hasn&#039;t bothered upgrading his iPhone from the original release. 

tldr: When there is something worth marketing then that release will have a consumer-friendly name that they can remember. This is Marketing 101. Other releases are noise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Progress: Most users don&#8217;t upgrade their browsers at all. Silent updates move the web forward more quickly than it would otherwise. If IE had silent updates the world would be a better place. </p>
<p>Marketing: Your argument is weakened by the fact that named OS releases (Ice Cream Sandwich, Froyo, Tiger, Lion, &#8230;) are the entities to which marketing stories are attached, whereas incremental releases usually don&#8217;t meaningfully impact the consumer anymore. Also, outside of the background app support/task switching/sync, the iPhone OS functionality hasn&#8217;t significantly changed through all of their releases to date, so most iPhone users don&#8217;t know their version either. My brother is not unlike most consumers and he hasn&#8217;t bothered upgrading his iPhone from the original release. </p>
<p>tldr: When there is something worth marketing then that release will have a consumer-friendly name that they can remember. This is Marketing 101. Other releases are noise.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Version Numbers: Still Mattering by Mom</title>
		<link>http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/2012/05/version-numbers-still-mattering/comment-page-1/#comment-828</link>
		<dc:creator>Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2012 18:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/?p=1103#comment-828</guid>
		<description>Wow ... 9:15 a.m. I&#039;m impressed!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow &#8230; 9:15 a.m. I&#8217;m impressed!</p>
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		<title>Comment on My Name Is Paul&#8230; And I&#8217;m a Build Engineer by Arash</title>
		<link>http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/2012/04/my-name-is-paul-and-im-a-build-engineer/comment-page-1/#comment-822</link>
		<dc:creator>Arash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2012 22:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/?p=1072#comment-822</guid>
		<description>#IgnoredAsFollows</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#IgnoredAsFollows</p>
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		<title>Comment on A New Approach by preed</title>
		<link>http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/2012/04/a-new-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-809</link>
		<dc:creator>preed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2012 20:13:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/?p=1047#comment-809</guid>
		<description>Thanks guys!

It&#039;s scary and exciting all at the same time.

And yes, Ron, I think leasing a Gulfstream and getting a turbine rating is a very important use of company funds. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks guys!</p>
<p>It&#8217;s scary and exciting all at the same time.</p>
<p>And yes, Ron, I think leasing a Gulfstream and getting a turbine rating is a very important use of company funds. <img src='http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on A New Approach by Ian McKellar</title>
		<link>http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/2012/04/a-new-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-808</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian McKellar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2012 18:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/?p=1047#comment-808</guid>
		<description>Congratulations and good luck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations and good luck!</p>
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		<title>Comment on A New Approach by Ron</title>
		<link>http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/2012/04/a-new-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-805</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2012 03:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/?p=1047#comment-805</guid>
		<description>I think last year I wished you a New York &quot;Happy Birthday to Youze&quot;.  This year, I wish a Happy Birthday to Yous.

Since you&#039;re not just the CEO, you&#039;re the company pilot, you should lease a plane!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think last year I wished you a New York &#8220;Happy Birthday to Youze&#8221;.  This year, I wish a Happy Birthday to Yous.</p>
<p>Since you&#8217;re not just the CEO, you&#8217;re the company pilot, you should lease a plane!</p>
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		<title>Comment on A New Approach by Mom</title>
		<link>http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/2012/04/a-new-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-804</link>
		<dc:creator>Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2012 01:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/?p=1047#comment-804</guid>
		<description>A great day for greatness to be born. Congratulations!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A great day for greatness to be born. Congratulations!!</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Mozilla LGBTQ Postscript by Strafe</title>
		<link>http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/2012/03/a-mozilla-lgbtq-postscript/comment-page-1/#comment-730</link>
		<dc:creator>Strafe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2012 00:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/?p=1004#comment-730</guid>
		<description>Sorry Tim, my perhaps too snarky response was related to your &lt;a href=&quot;http://subfictional.com/2012/03/09/the-overdue-need-for-community-conduct-standards-at-mozilla/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;comments on Christie&#039;s blog post about a code of conduct&lt;/a&gt;.

Your responses there tend to be, as Anonymous says above, &quot;Check your privilege&quot;, or links to articles like &#039;Derailing for Dummies&#039;. But from my view you also do things listed in &#039;Derailing for Dummies&#039; and merit the &#039;check your privilege&#039; response. I find it ironic that you press for a code of conduct but when it&#039;s pointed out that you also do the very things a code of conduct is supposed to prevent you fight back at the other person.

You&#039;ve failed to address people pointing out that your statements about most commenters asking to prove you are human appear to have no basis in fact. I understand you were upset at the original post by gerv. I understand that a code of conduct should be a good thing. I don&#039;t understand your reaction where you hyperbolize other peoples responses.

This type of behavior makes it difficult to believe that any form of &#039;code of conduct&#039; will actually be useful to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Tim, my perhaps too snarky response was related to your <a href="http://subfictional.com/2012/03/09/the-overdue-need-for-community-conduct-standards-at-mozilla/" rel="nofollow">comments on Christie&#8217;s blog post about a code of conduct</a>.</p>
<p>Your responses there tend to be, as Anonymous says above, &#8220;Check your privilege&#8221;, or links to articles like &#8216;Derailing for Dummies&#8217;. But from my view you also do things listed in &#8216;Derailing for Dummies&#8217; and merit the &#8216;check your privilege&#8217; response. I find it ironic that you press for a code of conduct but when it&#8217;s pointed out that you also do the very things a code of conduct is supposed to prevent you fight back at the other person.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve failed to address people pointing out that your statements about most commenters asking to prove you are human appear to have no basis in fact. I understand you were upset at the original post by gerv. I understand that a code of conduct should be a good thing. I don&#8217;t understand your reaction where you hyperbolize other peoples responses.</p>
<p>This type of behavior makes it difficult to believe that any form of &#8216;code of conduct&#8217; will actually be useful to you.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Mozilla LGBTQ Postscript by Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/2012/03/a-mozilla-lgbtq-postscript/comment-page-1/#comment-729</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2012 22:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://soberbuildengineer.com/blog/?p=1004#comment-729</guid>
		<description>Oh, and I left out how you delete any comments on your own blog that disagree with you.

It is interesting that someone who has been at Mozilla for less than six months and who is openly advertising to looking for a new job elsewhere is the one complaining the loudest about behavior of Mozilla folks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and I left out how you delete any comments on your own blog that disagree with you.</p>
<p>It is interesting that someone who has been at Mozilla for less than six months and who is openly advertising to looking for a new job elsewhere is the one complaining the loudest about behavior of Mozilla folks.</p>
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